WTB: 60s Vespa

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toigo
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WTB: 60s Vespa

Postby toigo » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:51 am

So now that my P200 is all cleaned up I don't want to be doing anything too stupid on it. I'm looking to rebuild something for the CORSA this year and hopefully the cannonball next year which is handicapped based on frame/engine age so that's why I'm looking for something older. Also any advice on what would be the best tradeoff between being old and somewhat reliable with decent performance is appreciated.

Looking for:

- 60s Sprint Veloce or something similar
- Can be very cosmetically rough
- Everything there including the original engine (can be in any shape since I'll likely rebuild it)
- Cheap with a title.

So ideally something old, not running, and pretty hammered with a title for cheap.

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dcunited4life
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Re: WTB: 60s Vespa

Postby dcunited4life » Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:45 pm

This doesn't really meet your criterion but at $90 it's 60's and a Vespa plus the welding piece may not be an issue for a "race" bike.

http://scoot.net/classifieds/forsale.html?id=42152

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imjuanpablo
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Re: WTB: 60s Vespa

Postby imjuanpablo » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:09 pm

Would you be open to a 60s allsate complete, maybe tossing on a 150 top end and maybe upgrading gears?
John F.

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toigo
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Re: WTB: 60s Vespa

Postby toigo » Thu Apr 11, 2013 2:22 pm

Possibly. I'm alright mechanically (redid my entire P200), but want something fairly close to stock just cause I'll have more faith in it. The cannonball is actually handicapped by displacement too so a 125 would help with that but would obviously be a little slow. An allstate would be great too cause if at some later date I did want to clean it up I really dig how they look.

I'm interested. What do you have?

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imjuanpablo
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Re: WTB: 60s Vespa

Postby imjuanpablo » Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:16 pm

Introducing the purple bomber.

Here are some pics....actually, I just picked this up from Andy/fredneck......I was going to keep it and do a mini-restore, but I'm having space issues with all my bikes.......and I'm buying two more in the near future, so some bikes gotta go.

Oh, and it has a title. super duper bonus.

Image

Image

Image
John F.

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dcunited4life
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Re: WTB: 60s Vespa

Postby dcunited4life » Fri Apr 12, 2013 11:28 am

What about a smallframe? Here's one in NC for $750 complete and apparently it was running.

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/mcy/3725251878.html

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Mikeh
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Re: WTB: 60s Vespa

Postby Mikeh » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:01 pm

Matt talk to your buddy Carrick to see if he wants to let go of his VBB/Allstate.
It's been sitting in my basement for a while and he hasn't made plans to come by to work on it yet.
it may be perfect.. also if you want to Kit a 225 motor.. I have spare motors all over the place these days.

Also please send me a link to these 2014 Cannonball rules. I am thinking about my 1959 Series II Shriner Scoot with a TS1 225 Motor.

But maybe I should source something older.. like an LD or handlebar Vespa.

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Mikeh
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Re: WTB: 60s Vespa

Postby Mikeh » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:01 pm

Matt talk to your buddy Carrick to see if he wants to let go of his VBB/Allstate.
It's been sitting in my basement for a while and he hasn't made plans to come by to work on it yet.
it may be perfect.. also if you want to Kit a 225 motor.. I have spare motors all over the place these days.

Also please send me a link to these 2014 Cannonball rules. I am thinking about my 1959 Series II Shriner Scoot with a TS1 225 Motor.

But maybe I should source something older.. like an LD or handlebar Vespa.

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imjuanpablo
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Re: WTB: 60s Vespa

Postby imjuanpablo » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:30 pm

Just curious about these "rules" and regarding the handicaps.........so you can take an ancient frame and stick an updated, more modern beat of a motor and that doesn't change/alter the handicapping? Seems to me if you take your series 2 and put in a 225, should you get the handicap for an older bike?

Mikeh wrote:Matt talk to your buddy Carrick to see if he wants to let go of his VBB/Allstate.
It's been sitting in my basement for a while and he hasn't made plans to come by to work on it yet.
it may be perfect.. also if you want to Kit a 225 motor.. I have spare motors all over the place these days.

Also please send me a link to these 2014 Cannonball rules. I am thinking about my 1959 Series II Shriner Scoot with a TS1 225 Motor.

But maybe I should source something older.. like an LD or handlebar Vespa.
John F.

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toigo
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Re: WTB: 60s Vespa

Postby toigo » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:45 pm

So the dude who won last year caused all kinds of drama by taking a 1940s salsbury scooter and swapping in a ninja 250 engine in addition to an lx150 front end, and a dirtbike swing arm. Last year the handicap was by frame, so he had so many points 5 days into the race that no one could catch him and people got pissed since the whole thing had been decided with 3 days of riding left. He had a 1940s handicap (the nearest other handicap was 1960s) and a bike that would do 80mph so he had it in the bag.

Image

I thought the "frankenscooter" as it was called was damn awesome.

Personally I say good for him. He did all his own work and managed to combine 4 bikes together and then run it across the country which is NOT easy and he probably put in more work than anyone else to prep for the race. The same rules applied to everyone and he read them carefully.

Cannonball 2014 http://www.scootercannonball.com
Detailed Rules http://www.scootercannonball.com/rules/rules-2014.pdf

The major change this year is that if you swap a new engine into an old frame. Your handicap year is the average of your frame and engine, rather than just your frame. This will limit the effectiveness of what the guy I mentioned above did last year.

@mike The VBB in question. Does that have 10" wheels and a 4 speed transmission? 150cc right?

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Mikeh
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Re: WTB: 60s Vespa

Postby Mikeh » Fri Apr 12, 2013 1:38 pm

The best thing to do will be to get the oldest scooter and you can find and make it's original engine as fast as possible with the bigest displacement you can modify it to..

I made an excel spreadsheet on my lunch hour and ran the numbers.. it's really a huge advantage to have somehting older than 1950 and not use a more modern engine but somehow modify the old motor.

A machine shop would be needed for this.

dirtyhandslopez
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Re: WTB: 60s Vespa

Postby dirtyhandslopez » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:09 pm

Wouldn't it be better to go the other way Mike? Old frame, old engine, small displacement, big gas tank, therefor less gas stops. Just got to be able to keep you bum planted for long periods without going nuts.
Remember the man that did the around the country trip 12 years or so ago? On a Douglas rod model no less, standard engine, did about 40 tops, but he made it all the way round with no probs...
That's not going anywhere

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Mikeh
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Re: WTB: 60s Vespa

Postby Mikeh » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:27 pm

My current thoughts are actually to reduce the displacement of a 125 cc VNB and use a cylinder and intake/exhaust from a honda CR80 with a water cooled head.

I may have to ask Al at HRS to make a custom crank/rod.. but the rest of the work should be do-able here in baltmore with a tig welder and standard machine shop stuff. Maybe next winter I'd look into this..

And I suppose it would be good to get a handlebar vespa for it.. the older the better.

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Mikeh
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Re: WTB: 60s Vespa

Postby Mikeh » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:27 pm

My current thoughts are actually to reduce the displacement of a 125 cc VNB and use a cylinder and intake/exhaust from a honda CR80 with a water cooled head.

I may have to ask Al at HRS to make a custom crank/rod.. but the rest of the work should be do-able here in baltmore with a tig welder and standard machine shop stuff. Maybe next winter I'd look into this..

And I suppose it would be good to get a handlebar vespa for it.. the older the better.

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Mikeh
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Re: WTB: 60s Vespa

Postby Mikeh » Fri Apr 12, 2013 3:48 pm

Also in response to Darren's concern about gas stops. I have done many of these events.. and I have tried extended tanks.. The outcome is that the races are not usualy that close at the finish and a few 60 second gas stops over the course of the day does not make a huge difference.

My current style of doing the events is to just bring a spare gas can. And stop and fill the tank on the side of the road between gas station stops. The total time I stop for gas over the whole day amounts to abut 6 minutes.

Getting lost and having a slow scooter will cost you serious time. The efforts should first be made to have the course figured out.. then to have a rock solid scoot that goes as fast as possible for it's year and displacement.


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