P200 Rectifier Trouble

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toigo
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P200 Rectifier Trouble

Postby toigo » Tue Jan 15, 2013 10:11 pm

So I thought I had my bike all wired correctly and charged the battery up on the trickle charger, but after about 2 days of riding around I'm pretty sure I was just sucking the juice out of the battery without it getting charged at all. Everything else on the bike seems to be working correctly at the moment except this. My bike is the earlier style P200 wiring setup and I just put a new wiring harness in it. Everything is pretty close to what's here: http://www.scooterhelp.com/electrics/wi ... before.pdf

I'm getting a signal coming out of both yellow wires where they would plug into the rectifier.

The connection between the pink wire that hooks up to the rectifier (then runs to the fuse) and then the rest of the electrical system is good. If I hook up a battery charger to the pink wire everything on the bike works fine without the battery attached. I had the stator rewired less than a year ago by Motorsport scooter and the headlight runs nice and bright.

I had the original rectifier on the bike which I'm about 95% sure was good. I kind of just put the bike away after the CORSA so this could have failed at some point and maybe I didn't notice, but up until then it was working fine. With everything hooked up exactly the same, I can't get anything out of the pink connection on the rectifier. The new wiring harness has a push on type terminal ground before the washer style terminal ground that just goes on one of the two bolts that hold the rectifier to the frame. Here's a photo of the rectifier.

Image

I also have a second rectifier that I bought as a spare when I did the cannonball which I can't get to work either. It's not color coded, but I have it wired like so which seems correct.

Yellow -> A
Yellow -> A
Purple -> G (I wasn't 100% sure on this, but it was the only wire left)
Pink -> B+
Black -> Ground Symbol (all the way on the right)

Image

I'm not 100% sure this second rectifier is the correct one for this bike, but I'm still not getting anything out of it. I'm guessing this is either an issue of the rectifier being bad or something not being grounded correctly to draw the current through it.

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toigo
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Re: P200 Rectifier Trouble

Postby toigo » Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:48 pm

I'm thinking I definitely have the wrong rectifier (the second one) and likely have the connections on it entirely wrong. The second photo of the rectifier matches the later P200 wiring diagrams and mine is the earlier style. This bike is kind of an oddball, because the VIN is just barely after where every site says the P200 wiring change happened, but still has the earlier wiring style.

Is there anyway to make this later P200 style rectifier work with my earlier P200 wiring harness?

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Mikeh
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Re: P200 Rectifier Trouble

Postby Mikeh » Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:54 pm

I have given up on the ducati/stock type rectifiers and regulators. Once you start having problems it seems to be a downward spiral of testing and battery running dead.

The Best fix that i have found is to run your strong unregulated purple/pink AC to the headlight and then put a clipper diode behind the headlight. This is the Tucker Rocker/MSR generic square $15 box that you use. You will want the purple circuit separate and dedicated to the headlight so that the headlight stays bright when you apply the brakes, turn signal and horn (these run off the battery).

Then for DC the best thing is to run a single strong AC input into a more more modern rectifier/regulator.

Image

I just bought one over the weekend. It's only $9 with free shipping. They sell them in 6 volt and 12 volt versions, the 6 volt version is a few more dollars - I got both on the way, and I have been using a 6 volt one on my rally 200 for a couple of years now . Here's a link to it;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/370265761061?item=370265761061&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:L:OU:US:3160&vxp=mtr

These units have four terminals. One is for AC input, One is for ground, One is AC regulated output, and one is for regulated DC output - I beleive that this goes to the white wire (or white/green wire) which goes up to key switch but I beleive you can wire it straight to the battery since there is a diode in the unit that will not feed power backwards into the stator plate.

You could take one of your yellow wires and connect it to the AC input on this and then ground the other yellow wire (they should be wired in series and not grounded at the stator plate).

It's pretty straight forward and for about $25 you'll have a system that you can more easily understand and trouble shoot.

Once thing to avoid when you are testing with a battery charger, is that you do not want to feed power into the stator plate - this can fry the coils and demagnitize the flywheel. If you hear slight buzzing when you connect the battery or battery charger then you are putting power into the coils.

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Mikeh
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:36 pm

Re: P200 Rectifier Trouble

Postby Mikeh » Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:55 pm

I have given up on the ducati/stock type rectifiers and regulators. Once you start having problems it seems to be a downward spiral of testing and battery running dead.

The Best fix that i have found is to run your strong unregulated purple/pink AC to the headlight and then put a clipper diode behind the headlight. This is the Tucker Rocker/MSR generic square $15 box that you use. You will want the purple circuit separate and dedicated to the headlight so that the headlight stays bright when you apply the brakes, turn signal and horn (these run off the battery).

Then for DC the best thing is to run a single strong AC input into a more more modern rectifier/regulator.

Image

I just bought one over the weekend. It's only $9 with free shipping. They sell them in 6 volt and 12 volt versions, the 6 volt version is a few more dollars - I got both on the way, and I have been using a 6 volt one on my rally 200 for a couple of years now . Here's a link to it;
http://www.ebay.com/itm/370265761061?item=370265761061&viewitem=&sspagename=ADME:L:OU:US:3160&vxp=mtr

These units have four terminals. One is for AC input, One is for ground, One is AC regulated output, and one is for regulated DC output - I beleive that this goes to the white wire (or white/green wire) which goes up to key switch but I beleive you can wire it straight to the battery since there is a diode in the unit that will not feed power backwards into the stator plate.

You could take one of your yellow wires and connect it to the AC input on this and then ground the other yellow wire (they should be wired in series and not grounded at the stator plate).

It's pretty straight forward and for about $25 you'll have a system that you can more easily understand and trouble shoot.

Once thing to avoid when you are testing with a battery charger, is that you do not want to feed power into the stator plate - this can fry the coils and demagnitize the flywheel. If you hear slight buzzing when you connect the battery or battery charger then you are putting power into the coils.

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Mikeh
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:36 pm

Re: P200 Rectifier Trouble

Postby Mikeh » Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:56 pm

sorry for the double post.

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toigo
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Re: P200 Rectifier Trouble

Postby toigo » Wed Jan 16, 2013 7:15 pm

Awesome. Thanks Mike. I'll order one of those tonight. One more quick question.

With the original rectifier in this diagram:

http://www.scooterhelp.com/electrics/wi ... before.pdf

There is a wire running off of the rectifier to the flasher unit. I'm assuming this just supplies a constant current to the flasher unit, and then another wire to that unit can let it know when to disperse the signal periodically when the turn signals are on. Does this sound correct?

So if I get a rectifier with with a single DC output terminal I just need to split it with one wire going to the fuse and then to the battery and another wire going to the flasher unit?

Does this sound correct? Thanks again for all of your help.

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toigo
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Joined: Sun May 01, 2011 8:47 pm
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Re: P200 Rectifier Trouble

Postby toigo » Wed Jan 16, 2013 10:11 pm

I think I have the new rectifier working correctly at the moment. I looked at the later P200 style wiring diagram here:

http://www.scooterhelp.com/electrics/wi ... .after.pdf

to see where the terminals on the later style rectifier were going and rearranged my connections like so and am pretty sure I'm getting DC out of the red terminal that connects to the battery now.

Rectifier -> Wires
A -> Pink (DC Output)
A -> Yellow Wire (AC In)
G -> Yellow Wire (AC In)
B+ -> Purple (To Flasher)
Ground -> Black (Ground)

We'll see after a little bit of riding if it's right or not. Now if it would just stop raining so I could actually ride.

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Mikeh
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Joined: Wed Oct 04, 2006 2:36 pm

Re: P200 Rectifier Trouble

Postby Mikeh » Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:59 am

Sounds like you have it sorted out. But to answer your question, the DC out of the regulator feeds into the wire that goes to the turn signal flasher, you will notice another wire (green/white) that heads up to the headset. This wire goes to the key switch and when the key is turned on connects the green/white to the red wire that travels back down to the fuse and battery.

Yes the turn signal flasher has one wire for power, one for the indicator on the headset, and one that grounds through the switch/signals when you flip the switch to go left or right.


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